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11/27/23 04:07 PM #2137    

 

Susan Chausow (Southam)

The WSJ article is available here without a paywall: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/to-shrink-learning-gap-this-district-offers-classes-separated-by-race/ar-AA1ky2ZD


11/27/23 04:16 PM #2138    

 

Susan Chausow (Southam)

Definitely got a reaction from me. I can see the reasoning, and would like to know the impact of the classes on learning and outcomes. There's no data! However, it sure smells like segregation. "Separate but equal" all over again? Could this justify overturning Brown v Bd of Ed? Or, would some conclude that it would justify overturning a landmark Supreme Court precedent? 

Sigh

 

 


11/27/23 10:00 PM #2139    

 

Karl Morthole

Dear Susan,  Thanks for posting the link to the Wall Street Journal article on the Evanston school district, ETHS in particular, adopting the policy of allowing AfricanAmerican students, Latino-Latina students, Asian/Pacific Islander students, and others with lower test scores, graduation rates, etc., to voluntarily choose to take classes in public schools in Evanston, taught by specially qualified teachers of their own race/ethnic groups.  These classes included especially AP courses -- such as math, English and other college-credit eligible classes.                                                                                                                                   I confess that before reading the article and thinking about it, I was inclined to be negative about the policy, for much the same reasons you alluded to.  However, after reading and thinking about it, I changed my mind.  Maybe the most important thing about the policy is that it is a voluntary choice by the students and their families.  The old "separate but equal" policy was never voluntary.  The Plessy v. Ferguson case, despite what it said, was never intended to make public education for minorities to be equal in quality, and allowed for, even guaranteed, separate but unequal education for AfricanAmerican and other unfavored minorities to last for another 60 to 70 years. (Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537 (1896), was a landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision ruling that racial segregation laws did not violate the U.S. Constitution as long as the facilities for each race were equal in quality, a doctrine that came to be known as "separate but equal".)                                                                                         It was not until the Brown v. Board of Education case in the '50s and the civil rights acts of the '60s that equal educational opportunities became the law, even if still not the reality, for the vast majority of AfricanAmericans and other minority groups.  I say "still not the reality" for the vast majority of minority peoples because of the intentional holding back of these groups economically and socially for decades and decades.  Widespread racial segregation laws and racial segregation policies in real estate practices and employment realities made educational achievement and upward mobility all but impossible for the vast majority of minorities.  There is simply no denying this.                                                                                             I could definitely write more about this, but it should better go into the "Discussion Forums."                             Thanks again, Susan.                                                                                                                                           Sincerely, Karl 


11/28/23 12:31 AM #2140    

 

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

From the quotes in the article, the classes seem to give the students confidence - especially to be themselves.  I didn't even grasp the extra weight on blacks' shoulders (To represent their whole race?  To fight perceptions of not being bright?) until the last several years!  If these classes work, and are voluntary, I see no problem!

The problem lurking is the problem of some white people who are actually anti-black and/or anti-minority, and want, unconsciously or even consciously, these kids to fail.

The best revenge is learning, giving it one's all, mastering the subjects.  Knowledge is POWER!


11/28/23 11:36 AM #2141    

 

Susan Chausow (Southam)

Karl and Susan, I agree with both of you. Yes, big difference between a voluntary choice to enroll in an all-Black or all-Latinx class and enforced segregation. And I was struck, also, by the point about students feeling they have to "represent" their whole "race" in mixed classes. Also, the courses being taught by Black or Latinx teachers is important as well. 

I just worry that there's an appearance of going backwards that could be fodder for backlash from those who would use such a program to suggest that minority students are "happier" being separated from the majority, etc. So much these days gets twisted by political spin. 

And, I want to see data about the student performance compared to their performance before the program began. 


11/28/23 03:39 PM #2142    

Jeffrey M Liebman

These issues resonate for educators who work with pupils who may otherwise present educational challenges (whether socio-economic, racial/ethnic, hearing loss, attention disability isorder, limited sight, etc.)  Should these pupils be enrolled with other pupils who are similarly classified, thus helping them with socialization issues  while sheltering them from challenges posed by inclusion in classes with non-classified pupils?  Or should they be challenged by inclusion in these at-large classes, thus helping to develop skills for success in the outside world?  These often complex decision are typically guided by the goal of a “least restrictive environment.”  Perhaps classmates who have been involved in special education placement processes may have more to say in (as Karl suggested) a Discussion forum


12/11/23 04:44 PM #2143    

 

Melvin "Rommie" Taylor

Hello 1964 Classmates, 

Yes, the time has come and everyone is invited to the Robert Bost Basketball Classic. It is coming early so please adjust your schedule .

The Basketball Game against New Treir will be at Evanston High School December 21, at 7:30 PM.  The last time we got together we enjoyed our conversations, connecting with classmates, enjoying a great rivalry and the Connections with Dewey, Skiles and ETHS. We had prime seats and we were introduced at half time with Bob Bost"s family. Let us come together and celebrate ! Let's Beat New Trier !!!!!!

E.T.H.S. We will fight for you!!!

Rommie HOF Honorary Captain 


12/18/23 11:34 PM #2144    

 

Fred Brostoff

Our classmate, Rommie Taylor, asked me to post the following message.

******************************************************************

Wildkit Faithful,

This Thursday (12/21), ETHS Girls (6:00) & Boys (7:30) Basketball battle New Trier in the Bost Family Classic presented by NorthShore University HealthSystem!!! 

We are expecting another sellout like last year so buy your tickets online at GoFan (Booster passes are not accepted for this game).

We hope you'll get your holiday season started with us in Beardsley Gym this Thursday night at 6:00pm!!

Go KITS!!!

"We Will Fight for You!"

Chris Livatino

Athletic Director

Evanston Township High School

 


12/19/23 04:52 PM #2145    

 

Leo Schlosberg

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3zQa7qLaStCDdvR18

https://photos.app.goo.gl/A4TQhpfyPjVj94P68

Photos are from a presentation by Corky Troy (Class of '63) on secular Christmas songs, 1930's-70's. One is of lyrics he wrote in HS, the other is of Bob May, father of Ginger and author of "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer". Corky has a career doing presentations, mostly on musical theatre. (For more, see:   http://charlestroy.com/)  I saw him (within an easy walk from my home in Woodstock) do the  presentation.  Afterwards we went out for coffee and chatted. He mentioned that his class recently had an informal reunion consisting of a few events cobbled together (gives an incentive for out-of-towners to show). Who knows, maybe some of us will patch something together for our 60th.


01/03/24 02:13 PM #2146    

 

Robert Lindner

It’s Sixty Years

 

In Nineteen Sixty-Four,

Sixty years ago, there was a new war.

And there have been a few

More wars. Humans will do

Wars. That’s not too hard to

Believe, when looking at the times before

 

And after we would be

Finished with high school. It’s our history

And our present and what

Was in between. And tis but

A shadow that will strut

Upon the stage, with the sound and fury

 

Of that play by Shakespeare

Which calls “tomorrow.” That’s what brought me here,

As it must bring us all,

If we are here to call

“Tomorrow,” when the fall

Has once more turned to winter. A New Year  

 

Has begun. And we are

Sixty years older than in times now far

Away. But they were our

Times. And we would flower

Into a future, hour

By hour. Day by day. And our lucky star

 

Says Twenty-Twenty-Four

Is here. Of course, I’ll wish for many more

Years for everybody

In this history

That has reached this sixty

Year moment with me. But who’s keeping score?

 

Perhaps time is? Or not?

Since time goes on. Time doesn’t care about what

We will number the year.

Or how long we’ve been here.

Or about my career

Or yours. Or how many years we’ve still got

 

Left. Which is as many

As the fates choose to provide us. Sixty

Long years have come to pass

Since the year that our class

Graduated en masse,

Singing our songs to remind us that we

 

Belong together in

That world of memories that would begin

When we were young children

In school, growing up, then

Becoming the women

And men that we are now, watching the spin,

 

As earth goes round every

Day and goes around the sun until we

Have passed the New Year’s day

That’s brought us here to say.

“We’ve made it all the way

To mark the sixty years since our journey

 

Into adult life began"

Well, there was college study in my plan.

But now that’s history,

Too. Part of the sixty

Years that have passed since we

Graduated, once hoping that dreams can

 

Be our future. But fate

Would choose our path and now it is too late

To try again because

What is, is. And what was,

Was. There are space-time laws

To obey, but now I’m the graduate

 

Again, in memory

Traveling through my ancient history.

The Sounds of Silence play,

As we pass the New Year’s Day,

And time goes on its way,

And we sing time’s song, “what will be will be.”

 

And sing our school song too,

Sing, “ETHS, we will fight for you.”

In our celebration

Of our graduation

We can still have some fun

In the sixtieth reunion. Who knew?


01/04/24 02:24 PM #2147    

 

Lincoln Krochmal

Robert,

again you have captured our past perfectly. One thing we all know about , is yhat you were blessed with an incredible talent tat you so wilingly share with others. To that, I say a big Thank You!!

have a safe 2024 and may peace soon  be world-wide and wars be over.

best, Linc


01/05/24 12:41 AM #2148    

 

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

Good poem, Robert!  Captures our moment.


01/05/24 04:34 PM #2149    

Jeffrey M Liebman

Last night (04 Jan), JackRakove was nterviewed on MSNBC by Lawrence O'Donnell.  It toook me a moment but I finally recognized his face and his puckish sense ofo humor.  He provided a highly illumiinating perspective for the attempts by politicians, judges, and media to understand what was going on in the miinds of our  forefathers when they wrote the Constitutiion. Towwards the end of the ~15-minute interview, he pointed out that historians should be involved in these deliberations.  I hope we hear more from him in the contentious discussioons to coome.


01/05/24 05:45 PM #2150    

 

Judith Sheahan (Lindgren)

Thank you, Jeffery, for alerting us that Jack appeared on Lawrence O'Donnel last evening, January 4. It can be viewed on YouTube. And, while I do not claim any expertise on the topic which hasn't stopped me from having a strong opinion, it seems that the SCOTUS justices who self-label as originalists have been dishonest when they claim to know exactly what the founders intended. 


01/05/24 06:03 PM #2151    

 

Holly Romans (Green)

Thanks, Jeff, for letting us know about Jack Rakove's interview Jan. 4 on MSNBC with Lawrence O'Donnel.  I googled it and was pleased to hear and see him.  His remarks as a historican rather than a politician gave it all a different and richer spin.  I hope we all will hear more of what he has to say.  


01/06/24 12:46 PM #2152    

 

William Wanlund

Yes, thanks, Jeff. I agree -- nice job, Jack. Looking forward to the Brennan Center announcement of your group -- are we weaponizing historians?


01/06/24 01:39 PM #2153    

 

Lee Saberson

We watch O'Donnell almost every night. I almost fell out of my chair when he said Jack's name. 


01/06/24 03:46 PM #2154    

 

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

I googled it and I could not find the link so someone can post it that would be good. But I just spent a very rewarding couple of hours reading a very long interview about an earlier book from about 1997 on original ism in the constitution.


01/06/24 05:40 PM #2155    

 

Jack Rakove

Here's the link to my Last Word appearance on MSNBC the other night. Hope you like my new bookcase from Room and Board!

As to Bill Wanlund's point, the idea of "weaponizing" historians seems a contradiction in terms. But if you follow the Supreme Court agenda, and in particular their decisions in Bruen (involving carriage of firearms) and Dobbs (overturning Roe v. Wade on abortion), the Court has called for a turn to "history and tradition" without adequately explaining what that means. So historians, if not being weaponized, are at least mobilizing to ask how we respond to this. As I said on the program, the idea that the framers of the Second Amendment (my buddy Madison was its main author) never would have thought it had anything to do with a personal right of self-defense, notwithstanding Scalia's atrocious opionion in D.C. v. Heller (2008).

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/stanford-professor-of-course-trump-can-be-prosecuted-after-impeachment-201393221728?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_lw


01/07/24 09:34 PM #2156    

 

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

Thanks, Jake!  I'm going to have to start listening 

to MSNBC again if I can get it on streaming, since

I no longer have cable.

Yesterday, when I was looking

for your latest interview, I did run into a long

interview you did about your 1997 book on

Originalism in examining the Constitution.

You pointed out that though the Constitution

needed to be ratified by each state, that

was a yes or no vote on the whole Constitution,

and thus did not confer popular approval of any

particular Article or clause.  I agree with that, and

I also think Originalism should not be used to

overlook the progress we've made since 1787.

But did you say Madison became an Originalist?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


01/08/24 12:38 AM #2157    

 

Karl Morthole

Susan -- You can find and watch/listen to Jack Rakove's interview on MSNBC a few days ago on Amendment 14, Section 3, by doing a Google search for "Lawrence O'Donnell Jack Rakove Interview on Last Word."  I was able to get it there when, for some reason, I could not connect with the link Jack kindly provided.  Give it a try.  It was excellent!  Thanks,and congrats to Jack.  -- Karl


01/08/24 04:05 PM #2158    

 

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

Thanks.  The original link Jake sent worked for me.
Another technological mystery.
 


01/09/24 11:22 PM #2159    

 

Jack Rakove

Responding to Susan . . . you probably saw the interview I did with Brian Lamb for CSPAN in the spring of 1997. If so, it had a funny opening: he asked me who Daniel Rakove was, and why he appeared in a footnote to my book Original Meanings. The short answer was that Dan and I visited Independence Hall together in the spring of 1993, and I asked him to count the number of steps from the first floor to the second. It all ties in to the moment when the Constitutional Conventon adjourned, and one of the PA delegates raced upstairs to tell the PA assemvbly that the moment had come for them to schedule a convention to ratify the Constitution.

Anyhow, on the academic side of your message: the question of how the Constitution would be interpreted was something that had to be worked our over time. It was not that rules for constuitutional interpretation were there on the shelf, ready to be taken home and put to work in 1789. A primitive form of the theory that we now call originalism did emerge in the 1790s, and Madison was its chief author. It's the subject of the last chapter of Original Meanings and also the subject of another book by a younger colleague, Jonathan Gienapp, who replaced me in the rotation at Stanford,

It is worth noting that at this initial moment, the question was not, how would judges interpret the Constitution, but how would the Constiution, as a certain kind of legal document, be read and interopreted by any responsible public official.


01/10/24 01:53 PM #2160    

 

Anne Haswell (Marinello)

Thanks for that important clarificataion about the judges role - not as to what was originally meant - but how, as a legal document, the Constitution reads.  Your book sounds interesting - and especially useful in these days.  Anne


01/10/24 05:47 PM #2161    

 

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

  Thanks for your reply, Jake.
it does sound like now would be an opportune time

to read "Original Meanings."  Good point, Anne.

 


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