Lincoln Krochmal

Forgot to say congratulations to Jack on the anniversary of his Bar Mitzvah. I forget my date except around my 13th birthday in Evanston.

Patrick Furlong

Like Jack (H), I thought that the War of 1812 was a draw, but I suppose that if the US failed to accomplish something that triggered the war, then a reasonable way to look at it is that we lost.

Regardless, as an aside, I remember being at Lincoln's Bar Mitzvah, because, if I recall correctly, he invited some or all of the members of our "Y" club, Fox (after Nellie) to attend. I hope that I remember correctly. So, congratulations to both Lincoln and Jack.

Paula Massey

I now live in Erie PA where Commodore Perry and the battle of Lake Erie loom large. We have a wonderdul Maritime Museum and a replica of the Brig Niagra with a timber from the original. My husband gives tours of the Niagra when it's in port as a volunteer.  A lot of ship building before the battle took place here.

What I undersatand is that if communication had been better the War of 1812 need not have happened since the agreemant between us and the British had already been signed. Also, the British burned D.C. because Americans had previously burned York, the Canadian capital.  

It's been great to learn the history of this area that we moved to 4 years ago.

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

this discussion is fascinating! I am learning
an awful lot - and it is good to have the

Canadian perspective.  I know the US attacked

 Canada during the war of 1812, but I don't remember

learning that we burned the Canadian capital.

of course I learned about the burning of the 

US capital.

Jack Rakove

I got to Erie once on a gig and have been to its museum, which I found quite informative.

And if pressed, I'll tell you why the Erie Triangle exists.

Anne Haswell (Marinello)

Now that's a tease!  Do tell!  

Jack Rakove

Since you ask . . .

Pennsylvania's northern boundary was set by the charter King Charles II gave to William Penn in 1682 or so. NY colony had no chartered boundaries. It had been conquered by the English in the 1660s. Everyone knew where NY began, but not where it ended.

During the Revolution, NY wanted to have its boundaries set, and it granted its so-called western land claims to the Continental Congress, reserving everything east of a line drawn due south from the western boundary of Lake Ontario.

Pennsylvania always thought it would have prime beach property on the southern shore of Lake Erie. But when its northern boundary was finally surveyed in the late 1780s, all they had was a short stretch of lake shore, west of the Erie peninsula (which would have created the Great Lakes port PA wanted).

But the NY southern boundary hit Lake Erie east of the peninsula, so what became the Erie Triangle seemingly belonged to neither NY nor PA. But Congress did not want this land either, so it transferred (or maybe sold) the Triangle to PA.

I know all this because forty years ago I got involved in litigation involving Iroquois land claims against NY.

That's tonight's history lesson.

Meanwhile the Cubs can go for a sweep against the Tampa Bay Rays tomorrow. Hope springs eternal in the human breast.

Melvin "Rommie" Taylor

MONDAY JUNE 26,2023 , THE WARREN CHERRY GOLF TOURNAMENT AT THE WILMETTE GOLF CLUB WILL TAKE PLACE . 
SO TO THE CLASS OF 1964 PLEASE JOIN US AND PLAY IN THE CHERRY 🍒 GOLF TOURNAMENT. I HAVE ASSEMBLED A TEAM OF CLASSMATES:RUSS ROBERTS, DICK OLMAN, DON HALL AND ROMMIE TAYLOR. WE WILL SHARE LAUGHS,CONVERSATIONS, OLD STORIES AND DRINKS 🍺 TO MARK THE OCCASION. AS WE SLL KNOW WE ARE NOT GETTING ANY YOUNGER SO LET''S WHAT WE HAVE LEFT. IF ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO JOIN US WE WILL CELEBRATE LIKE IT WAS 1964 !!!!! CALLING OUT :LEE SABERSON, MARK GOODMAN, BOB REEDER , MARTY SCHWARTZ, MIKE HOVSEPIAN, TED DOWNING, ERIC BARINHOLTZ AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST JUDY ANDERSON AND ANY OTHER CLASSMATES OR FRIENDS OR RELATIVES.

PLEASE JOIN US OR DONATE TO THE SCHOLARSHIP. OUR CLASSMATE BOB REECE WHO THIS YEAR AWARDED $130,000 TO 23 SCHOLARS ! 
TO FIND OUT MORE GO TO WWW.CHERRYSCHOLARSHIP.ORG  

DONATIONS  CAN BE SENT TO : WARREN "BILLY" CHERRY 🍒 SCHOLARSHIP FUND  P.O.BOX 0944 EVANSTON, ILLINOIS 60204-0944

LOOKING FORWARD TO REPORT THE SUCCESS OF THIS HISTORIC EVENT!!!!!

Martin Schwartz

Rommie, for the past several years I have donated to the Cherry Foundation golf tournament but I have never been in Chicago when it was held and actually been able to play.  This year, however, I will be in town for a family event the weekend prior to the tournament.  So sign me up and I will look forward to catching up with  some of my old classmates.  And if Lee Saberson, Mark Goodman, Eric Barinholtz, Bob Reeder or any of the others you called out decide to play, I would love to spend a day with them for a round of golf.  I'll send in my registration.

Melvin "Rommie" Taylor

CLASSMATES OF 1964,

MARTY SCHWARTZ HAS POSTED HIS POSITIVE RESPONSE AND HE IS COMING TO CHICAGO!!!! HE IS SIGNED UP FOR THE WARREN CHERRY 🍒 GOLF TOURNAMENT.

THIS EVENT INCLUDES GOLF, LUNCH, DINNER, GREAT CONVERSATIONS AND FUN . LET'S MAKE THIS ONE TO REMEMBER!

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR BEAUTIFUL SUPPORT!!!!!

ROMMIE HOF HONORARY CAPTAIN 

Paula Massey

Back to that Pennsylvania triangle that I live in.................

Along with the Perry association, we also have a wonderful 13 mile peninsula around the city of Erie called Presque Isle with beaches, biking,walking and driving possibilities, many enjoyable ethnic festivals including a Greek one, also wineries and vineyards to visit in Ohio, NY as well as Penna.   And we are only 100 miles from Niagara Falls.

Sherwin "Jay" Siegall

Ronnie:  wouldlove to be there and just looked at date ☹️We are doing our annial family vacation with 25 family members in TN and starts June 24th  will send a check  how much was the golf tournament contribution?  Good cash you Reece and others have take  up  hope class of 64 folks will contribute  Evanston and ETHS were very good to me!!Go wild kits   Also hope classmates had a chance to read the alumni newsletter  great article on hoops teams that went downstate in the 80s

Pauline Noznick (Gerstein)

This is for Jack--what about the Mason -Dixon Line, which settled the Southern border of PA decided at this time?  As I recall, the agreement was a deal that allowed slavery south of the line, and follow the Ohio River west of PA, so for states south of the line, slavery was allowed, north of the line, it was not. This became a problem when the lands west of the Misxsissippi were setted.  It was decided to continue the line west of the Mississippi, slavery would be allowed south of this line. One resullt was a hot war in Kansas over the spreads of slavery.

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

 Pauline, thanks for the history lesson on the origins of the mason Dixon line. I was wondering about that I remember learning about "Kansas, bloody Kansas."  

Paula, the part of Pennsylvania, where you live, sounds beautiful!

Robert Lindner

Speaking of Lake Erie, we visited Geneva on the Lake

in the summer on a vacation with the grandkids.

It's in Ohio, not far from Erie, PA.

We all had a great time there.

Lots of wineries.

Jack Rakove

For Pauline, and anyone else I have not bored completely . . .

Actually my favorite source on the Mason-Dixon Line is Thomas Pynchon's novel, Mason & Dixon, which has a hilarious scene in which George Washington has a  cook named Gershom who is both Black & Jewish and who cooks up a batch of kasha varnishkies while they're smoking a bowl of hemp (278-79) plus another one (349-52) reflecting on whether history is a science or just a set of stories.

But I digress. It would be wrong to say the Mason-Dixon line was designed to protect slavery. Its real purpose was to settle boundaries where four colonies overlapped; Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, and the part of Virginia that became W. Va. during the Civil War. (There is a debate as to whether W Va. is or is not constitutional, but one way or another we are stuck with it.) These areas were densely settled before the Revolution, so to be confident about the validity of land titles, there was a legal need to sort out exactly where the boundaries ran.

Much later, you could see the Mason-Dixon line as a tacit boundary between slave and free states. PA was one of the first states to abolish slavery, after the Rev., but Delaware and Maryland remained slave states until the 13th Amendment was ratified in 1865. Remember they were Border States that remained "neutral" in the Civil War and Lincoln did not want to alienate them politically.

Further west, the Ohio River became a boundary between slave and free states after the NW Ordinance of 1787. But in fact slaves were still being held in parts of Illinois and Indiana into the 19th century, and various duplicitous efforts were made to legitimate a form of slavery through extended indentured servant contracts. Slavery remained a live issue in Illinois even after it became a state.

Susan Chausow (Southam)

Jack, I for one am far from being bored by your informative and insightful comments. And now I have to find a copy of Mason and Dixon! Thanks!

Susan Spiegel (Pastin)

That's interesting that slavery was an issue in Illinois even after we became a state - was that 1818?

Jack Rakove

Yes, Illinois became the 21st state in 1818. Notwithstanding the anti-slavery provisions of the NW Ordinance, slaveowners were present in the Illinois territory, and strange as it seems to us, there were legal constraints about emancipating slaves without providing just compensation to their owners. I had a grad student (also from Chicago, and a Northwestern law grad) who did a dissertation on legal culture in early Illinois, and cases involving African Americans who were effectively enslaved or exploited were one of her topics. (Like me, she's a Cubs fan--the lovable losers are coming to SF next weekend.)

Rosanne Bass (Keynan)

Jack (and others) -- I keep getting "Cubs win!" notices on my FB feed. Deep fakes?

William Wanlund

Back to slavery in IL, for a moment -- it's an interesting issue in light of Evanston's decision to pay reparations to eligible Black citizens.

Jack Rakove

Rosanne (et al.)--I don't do FB, though they used to be in our neighborhood, more or less, but if you literally keep getting messages that the Cubs have won, something is wrong.

This makes me think of when I worked in the Loop in the summer of 1969, between my time at Fort Knox and starting grad school, and riding the El back to Evanston and checking whether the W was flying at Wrigley. I always thought that for Cubs fans of our generation, that was the team we always wanted to win--not to take anything away from 2016, of course.

Don Hall

For the Class of '64 in case you're wondering how much fun it is to attend the "Warren "Billy" Cherry  Scholarship Fund Golf Outing, I've attached the 2021 and 2022 pictures of some familar faces.  2021 L-R: Joe Kietel, Bob Reece, Dick Ollman, Don Hall.  2022 L-R, Bob Reece's Uncle, Guy Ward (Bob Ward's brother), Rommie Taylor, Don Hall.  See message postings at 2019, 2020 and 2021 for more information and the website: www.cherryscholarship.org to sign up for the event (golf, donate, dinner...lot's of options) on 26 June at the Wilmette Golf Club.  Looking to have fun at the event and; hopefully, be with several of our '64 Classmates.  Warm Regards to all. 

Frank Zeman

Don, what is the tee time? frank zeman

Vernon Neece (Neece)

Just an aside, when we lived in Mt Vernon, IL in  the early 1970s we learned that once upon a time Illionois had its own version of the KKK called the Knights of the Golden Circle.